![[debate contents]](../../pix/back.gif)
Sixteen of thy first Pages are filled with this (to wit) proving that
there is a Christ, and that he was promised, and that he was
waited for, and expected, &c. To all this I shall say nothing,
except thou hadst proved it in opposition to somebody; for what is Truth
I own by the Spirit of the Lord, as it is Truth in Christ; but as it
comes from thy lying spirit, I do not so well own it; ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
![[cited by Burrough (1)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
![[cited by Burrough (2)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
I own the
words, and I deny thy voice, and this is my Answer.
Only I find thee wresting some Scriptures, whether through subtilty, or
for want of wit, I shall not judge, especially this hast thou encreased, Revel. 13.8.
![[cited by Bunyan (1)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
![[cited by Bunyan (2)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
![[cited by Burrough (1)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
and falsly sayst, The Blood of
Christ was shed before the World was; and it is, Since the
Foundation of the World;
betwixt which is great difference, the
one being a very Lye, and the other very Truth. Let shame cover thy
lips.
Then thou goest on proving, That
he is the Saviour that was born of Mary, &c.
which thing we never denied, and therefore I
need the less to answer thee, except thou hadst spoken it in opposition
to us, which I find thee not altogether, until the thirty seventh Page,
where thou again secretly smitest, in mixing some Truth with thy Lye.
And thou sayest, How horribly are
those deceived, who look on Jesus
to be but a
Shadow or Type?
This is thy Lye,
I know not any who do it, ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
and yet thou sayest, Of
something that was afterwards to be revealed, &c.
Answ. This hath some truth in it, which is this, ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
The same
Christ which was born of Mary, which wrought Righteousness in
his Person, by doing, and suffering; which was & is the Substance,
was afterwards revealed in the Saints: And this is no horrible deceit,
to witness Christ revealed, or to wait for him to be revealed within.
Then thou sayest, When he was come,
then was an end put to the Law, &c. ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
And here I ask a Question,
Did Christ Jesus
put an end to the Law for them who
yet live in the transgression of the Law? or ![[cited by Bunyan (1)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
![[cited by Bunyan (2)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
doth he justifie that which the Law
condemneth before the work of the Law be finished?
What is the
meaning of the Scripture, Not one tittle shall fail, till all be
fulfilled? ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
What assurance
have any that it is fulfilled for them, who are yet transgressors of
it in themselves? ![[echoed by Bunyan (1)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
![[echoed by Bunyan (2)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
An Answer
to this may satisfie the simple.
Then thou goest on and sayst,
How are they deceived that think to obtain Salvation by following the
convictions of the Law, which they call Christ, &c.?
Answ. Here thou confessest ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
the Law convinceth,
then it is not
put to an end, or fulfilled, or taken away, because it yet works;
and it is no deceit to mind that which doth convince of sin, to lead to
Christ, to take sin away;
for the Scripture saith, The Law is a
School-Master, to bring to Christ; but thou art in the deceived
state, who healest up falsly, and daubest with untempered Morter, and
wouldst teach People to apply the Promises unto Salvation, while they
are in a condition of damnation, condemned in the sight of God by the
Light in their own Consciences,
nor will not own that which discovers
sin; and how then can they own him that takes it away, and purges from
it by his Blood?
which thou sayest is done, but hast no more
witness of it, by the fruit of ceasing to commit sin, then the
Pope hath, who lives in your sin; then how is it taken away?
Then thou sayest with an impudent
Tongue, Its not of works, least any man should boast, as these fond
Hypocrites called Quakers would do.
Answ.
Thou Slanderer,
When didst thou hear any of the
Quakers boast, or see them live in Hypocrisie: God shall judge
thee thou deceitful heart; but further I answer by a Query, ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
Will that faith
which is without works justifie?
And must not every one receive
according to their deeds; he that doth good, Life, he that doth evil,
Condemnation? but such is thy faigned fancy of Faith, who seekest to be
justified by it, whilst thou bringest forth the fruits of unbelief.
Then thou speakest of living by Faith,
which as thou sayest, Is to apply
the Lord Jesus Christ, his Benefits, as Birth &c.
![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
I say, if to talk of him was Faith in him, and to
live by his Faith, then few would want him; for many have gotten the
words which are without the Life of Righteousness through Faith,
and to live by Faith; says not who shall ascend or descend to
fetch Christ for Salvation; neither doth it say, When shall he come from
afar to save his People, but Faith speaks thus, What saith the word of
the Gospel, which is within the heart, as thou mayst read in the
Scripture of Truth; hadst thou but an ear to hear, but thou sayest,
Lo here, and Lo there, false Prophet like.
Then thou sayst further, How
are they deceived who own Christ no otherwise then as he was before the
World began, &c.?
Answ.
Here thou hast discovered thy self more
plainly, Did not the Saints own Christ Jesus the same yesterday, to day,
and for ever, for Salvation; and is there any other Christ then he who
was before Abraham was, and is he not now glorified with the same
glory, (mind the same Glory) which he had with the Father before the
World was, according as he prayed? is this deceit, or is it thy grievous
ignorance to call it so, to own him as he was before the World was for
Salvation? thou ignorant man, that was the very Christ the Son of God,
who was equal with the Father, which was in the beginning, and in time
was manifest in Bethlehem, and calls himself the Light of the
World; thou hadst better have said nothing, then by multitude of words
to lay open thy shame:
Friend that spiritual Rock which the Fathers did eat
and drink of, which followed them, that Rock was Christ the
Salvation.
The next
thing that I take notice of, is thy exposition upon that
Scripture 1 Joh. 4.3. And thou sayest this is the meaning, Every Spirit
that doth not confess that that Christ that was with the Father before
the World was, did in the appointed time of the Father come into the
World, took upon him a Body, and was very Man, as well as very God,
&c.
Answ. ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
If every spirit
be of God which doth in words confess this, then is not the Pope
himself antichrist, seeing he confesses as much of this (it may be more
then thou dost) neither canst thou justly condemn us for denying this;
for we do confess it with our hearts, and not only with our mouthes, as
thou and the Pope doth.
But Friend, Is every one saved that saith, Lord,
Lord? nay, it is only he that doth the will of the Father, and who in
many Nations do not confess this to be true, and yet there are but few
in all Nations in the Way to Life, that shall be saved by Christ Jesus;
and it is not much better nor more
accepted to confess Christ in words to be come, and yet in works to deny
him, then it is both in words and in works to deny him; the one is
wicked in Prophaness, the other is wicked in Hypocrisie; the one is a
Lyar, the other is a false Witness, and whether of those are most vile,
let them who are spiritual judge.
Then thou exhortest, To
receive no Christ except God's Christ, &c.
![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
To this I say, The Christ of God is a
Mystery not known to the World, and this is he which was in the
beginning, whom God gave into the World, to be the Light and Saviour
thereof, even he is God's Salvation unto the ends of the Earth; and unto
him he is Light, and shall be Salvation and Redemption where his Person
never came;
and yet it cannot be said, Here is the Place where
the Son of God is not.
Let him that reads understand.
Then thy next thing is, proving
many things concerning Christ, which
I pass by as
not having any thing therein against the Quakers,
only in one
particular, where thou
numbers again them with the Ranters, so that I pass by also,
lest thou should say I justifie the Ranters, and do rather choose
to let the Innocent lie under the suffering of thy reproach,
whose
innocency will appear when thy black vail of Lyes is taken away.
Then the next
thing I mind is, where thou seems to
reprove the Quakers for wresting the Scripture, John
1.9. whereby thou
sayest, They split themselves, and endeavour to split others,
&c.
Answ. ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
Wresting is thy own, and not ours, for we
take the Scripture in plain words, without adding or diminishing, as our
enemies shall witness for us. Then how wickedly dost thou say we wrest
it, when we neither add nor diminish.
But thy
folly must appear by thy much meddling.
And then thou takest in hand to speak to the thing, and thus thou sayst; Every man, as he comes into the World, receives a light from Christ, as he is God, &c.
Answ.
What less hast thou said then we,
except thou wilt say, he hath not lighted man as he is Christ, and so
divide the Father, and the Son, which is
error;
for what the
Father doth, the Son doth also, and they are equal in power and
operation, and cannot be divided.
Then thou sayst, This Light is
Conscience, that some call Christ, though falsly.
Answ.
Them I leave for thee to reprove, and do
deny them, and thee together; if thou hast not falsly made a Lye of some
Body, and told thy own Lye, through the wresting of their words, let the
Light in thy Conscience judge.
Then thou sayest, This Light will shew a man there is a God, and will discover the eternal God by his works, and it will reprove of sin, and make sin manifest, and by it the unregenerate man is able to know the sins against the Law are sins against God, &c.
Answ. ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
Also this will the Light of Christ do,
wherewith he hath enlightened every man to Salvation, or condemnation,
even that Light of which we declare: so that thou hast said no less
hitherto, then we in this particular and the Scriptures say. ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
They saw
the Eternal Power and Godhead, by that which was made manifest of
God in them, (mind, in them)
which once
they knew of God, but turned from it; ![[ignored by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
and the Scripture saith, That which reproves of sin is the gift of the
Spirit of God, John 16. and also the
Scripture saith, That which makes manifest sin is Light,
and whatsoever is reproved is made manifest by the Light, even the
true Light the Apostle speaks of, Ephes. And the sum of all this
which thou wouldst reprove in us, is no more then the Scriptures bare
witness of, and which thy self hath uttered and confessed. ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
And Friend, dost thou know this Light that is given of
Christ and God, unto every man,
is sufficient in it self for Life
and Salvation unto every one that believes?
if thou say it is not, wherein is the
blame, in God, or in his Light, or in the Creature? shew if thou
canst.
Then thou again sayst, This light surely is that wherewith Christ, as he is God, hath enlightned every one that comes into the World which doth convince of sin.
Answ.
Thus far thou art
forced to confess Truth, (I think against thy mind) and thus far in
words only we agree as in this particular;
then why
dost thou say, By
wresting that Scripture, John 1.9. we split our selves, and
endeavour to split others, seeing thou thy self hast confessed no
less than thou callst wresting in us. I reckon up thy confusion, and
leave it for thee to read, and them to whom this may come.
Then thou sayst, The neglect of this (Light) will be sure to damn, though the obedience to the Law will not save them, &c.
Answ.
Here again thou
hast confessed truth. If the neglect of the Light will be sure to damn,
as thou confessest; ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
then I
say, surely it is not good to neglect it, that must needs follow,
deny it if thou canst; therefore the sum of thy words is the same with
us, that every one mind the Light of Christ Jesus, least they be damned
for the neglect of it. And Friend,
to the second part of the
clause, I say, the Law must be obeyed, and the righteousness of it
fulfilled within thee, if ever thou come to Eternal Life; if it be not,
thou cannot escape damnation. Learn what this means.
Then further thou sayst, Though
Christ doth give a Light to every one that comes into the World; yet it
doth not therefore follow, that this Conscience (or Light) is the Spirit
of Christ, or the work of Grace wrought in the heart, &c.
Here thy confusion is seen at large, who wouldst seem to divide between
the Light of Christ, which thou confessest is given to every man, and
the Spirit of Christ, and the Grace of God.
However thus
far I say, the Light of Christ given to every man, is not contrary
to the Spirit of Christ, and to the Grace of God,
but one in their
nature; and a man cannot possibly love one of them, and hate
another; neither can any obey one of these and disobey the other;
therefore are they one in the union, leading in the same way unto the
same end. And where doth the Spirit of Christ give light, or the Grace
of God work, or lead, if not in the Conscience? ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
And can there be any surer thing for the Creature
to look to, to walk to Life, or to come to God by, then the Light of
Christ in the Conscience, which thou confessest every man hath that
cometh into the World?
Then thou sayst, Heathens, Turks, Jews, Atheists, &c. have that that doth convince them of sin, yet are so far from having the Spirit of Christ in them, that they delight to serve their lusts, &c.
Answ. ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
This Query I ask
of thee, Do they or thou, or any man serve sin or your lusts, because
Christ hath not given you light to discover your sin, or because you
hate that Light that is given? answer me. ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
And surely by this which doth convince of sin, is
every man in the world inexcusable;
so it works for God in all men, either
to justifie or condemn. And tell me, is not the Spirit or Light of
Christ the only thing which doth convince of sin?
Or doth any
thing convince of sin contrary, or besides, or without the Spirit of
Christ? if nay, then it must needs be that it is from, or by, or
something of the nature of the Spirit of Christ, which is in the
Heathens. And the sum of thy doctrine is no less in the
profession of thy words, then what we say; then why dost thou condemn
us? But it seems thy tongue speaks one thing, and another thing is in
thy heart, and this is Hypocrisie.
Then thou sayest, Those
that are alive to sin have not the Spirit of Christ, &c. ![[cited by Bunyan (1)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
![[cited by Bunyan (2)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
![[cited by Bunyan (3)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
![[cited by Bunyan (4)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
But I say it is
given to every man, though every man receives it not; and it strives
with the wicked man, though he follows it not. ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
And some other vain Arguments thou usest to prove,
That every man hath not the Spirit of Christ, which I pass by;
only thus much I leave with thee, ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
![[cited by Burrough (1)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
till thou
provest the Light of Christ (which thou confessest every man hath)
to be contrary to the Spirit of Christ; ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
![[cited by Burrough (1)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
![[cited by Burrough (2)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
![[cited by Burrough (3)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
I shall say every man hath that which is one in union, and
like the Spirit of Christ, even as good as the Spirit of Christ,
according to its measure.
Then thou goest on, and sayest, That the Devil might be sure to deceive (or to that purpose) he saith, Turn thy mind inward, and listen within, and see if there be not that within thee that doth convince of sin, &c.
Answ.
Thou hast
confessed that the Light within which convinces of sin is the Light of
God and Christ; and now thou sayest, the Divil, to deceive souls, bids
turn to mind the Light within, which doth convince of sin; thou hast
lyed of the Devil: Oh thou blind Priest! whom God hath confounded in
thy language;
Was ever such a thing spoken, That the
Devil can deceive any by the Light of Christ, or that he uses any such
doctrine.
Friend it is the Voice of the Gospel to bid listen
within to the Light, even to the Word of Faith, within the heart, as
Paul preached.
![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
But thou further sayst, They
are ignorant of the Gospel, who claps in with these Motions of
the Light
within, (or Conscience) which doth command to abstain from the evil,
and to practice good.
And here thou hast shewed thy blindness and ignorance, more than can be
uttered, as though the motions of the Light of Christ in the Conscience,
which command to abstain from evil, and to practice good, were another
thing then the Light of the Gospel: ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
what, and
how doth the Light of the Gospel work, if not in the Conscience, and
to command from evil, and to practice good? Surely thou preachest
another Gospel then Paul preached: for his Doctrine was, Abstain
from all evil, and follow that which is good, and listen to the word
within in the heart; but this Gospel thou deniest, and so must needs
preach another Gospel, and so art the accursed, as Paul saith.
Then thou sayst, Thus the poor
Soul is most horribly carried away head-long, &c. into the belly of
Hell, &c. thus much is the sum, by turning the mind within, to the
Light which doth convince of sin, and listning thereto, and clapsing
with the motions in the Conscience which do command to abstain from
evil, and to practice good, and closing with something within
(which thou hast confessed is the Light
of Christ) hereby, or thus is the poor Soul carried headlong, and at
the end of its life doth fall into the belly of Hell, as thou
sayst.
Let shame cover, if thy heart be not altogether hardned; was ever such Doctrine preached? surely, malice hath carried thee out of sence, else thou wouldst not have uttered these things, but it is answer enough to reckon thy confusion up into a sum, and I leave it to every honest heart to read, and judge thereof.
Then thou further sayst, The
Devil counterfeits the work of Grace, and makes the Soul believe, if it
will be led by what is made known unto it, by the Light or Conscience
within, it shall do well.
Answ.
Wo unto thee
that callst good evil, and evil good; Art thou not ashamed to utter thy
mind so wickedly, and impudently? doth the Light of Christ within
deceive? or is not this Christs Doctrine, I am the Light of the World,
he that follows me shall have the Light of Life; and he that walks in
the Light stumbles not? and this shamelessly hast thou called the
Doctrine of the Devil; but if ever thou knowst God it must be by
following, and by being led with the Light within, which God hath made
known unto thee, else the Light is thy condemnation eternally.
![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
Then thou sayst, The Devil
counterfeits the new birth, by perswading it is wrought by following the
Light of the World, &c.
Answ. This Doctrine is as wicked as the former, and from as
lying a spirit;
but answer me, By what is the New-birth wrought?
and how, if not by following the Light of Christ in the Conscience? is
there any other way to God but Christ Jesus, who hath lighted every man
that comes into the World?
and whereas thou beginst to scorn, in
thy vain mind, at living upon Bread and Water, and wearing no Hatbands,
and not speaking except the Spirit
moves, &c. ![[ignored by Bunyan (1)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
The
Scorner and the Lyar go together, the Lord rebuke thee thou false
deceitfull heart, and lying tongue; it grieves thy lust to know any to
live upon bread and water, and it torments thy pride, that any should
forsake their pride; and it is easily known of what spirit thou art, and
that thou goest on in thy own will, before God leads thee, and scornst
to wait till the Spirit of God moves upon thee, or scornst them that do
wait;
but thou runst, and art not sent, like unto thy
Fore-fathers;
and therefore
thou dost not profit people at all.
Then thou accusest us
of sad Blasphemies, and horrible Doctrines,
but namest
nothing, and so slanderst without witness; and take back thy own
words, for they belong to thee, as is sufficiently proved in this Answer
to thy Book, let the wise in heart judge:
And thou sayst, Thou
wonderst, that the ground do not open and swallow us up, or else the
Devil fetch us away alive, &c. And this most fully discovers
thy spirit to be without the fear of God in any measure, who utterst
such wicked Language, for which thou hast no example among all the
Children of God; and is not this horrible Doctrine, and little less then
sad Blasphemies? It is answer sufficient to gather up thy confusion,
and send it thee to read; if there be any honesty in thy heart, repent,
and cease thy wickedness, lest God smite thee with a Curse, and make
thee an Example of Destruction.
Then thou goest on, and hast asked thy self a
Question; Is it not the Spirit of Christ that doth make manifest,
or convince of Sin?
The Question is good, but thou
hast confounded it in thy Answer, and not answered plainly, but hast
covered Truth under the vail of thy many
words: Thou sayst,
There are two things that do make manifest, and convince of Sin;
first, the law; and secondly, the Spirit of Christ. I query
further, Doth any convince of sin contrary to the Spirit of Christ? if
not, then that which doth convince of sin is like unto, or one in the
Union, or something as good in its Nature as the Spirit of Christ;
and thou instancest in Judas,
whom thou sayst was convinced of sin by the Law, without the
Spirit of Christ; to which I say, the Law of God is spiritual, and is
not contrary, but one with the Spirit of Christ in its union, (at least)
and that which let him see Christ to be innocent, was not words,
syllables without him, but must needs be within him; so if I should say
the Spirit of Christ was not in him,
yet was the Work
of the righteous Law of God written in his heart, which is
spiritual, and Christ Jesus was not without his own testimony in
Judas, which is Light, by which Judas was, and is
condemned eternally; And though Judas was at the same time possessed of the Devil, as thou sayest, yet there was
that within him also, which disquieted, and tormented the Devil, which
discovered the Devil with his works, by which he saw his murderous mind,
and the Blood of the Just One, I say; it needs must be contrary to the
Devil, and to his works, which condemned him; I call it the Light of
God, which is spiritual, call it what thou canst.
Then thou goest on, and seems to shew a difference,
betwixt being convinced by the Law without the Spirit of Christ, and the
convincement by the Spirit of Christ, ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
but art confounded in thy discourse.
I say the power of the Law of God is spiritual,
and though thou make a little thing of
it to be convinced by the Law, of sins against the Law, yet I make
it a thing of weight;
And this is the condemnation, that Light is come into
the World, and men love darkness rather than Light, because their deeds
are evil;
and the Law is Light, as saith the
Scripture, and Christ is come to discover and reprove sin; ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
and I put thee to prove in all the Scripture
where any such thing ever was distinguished, as something to convince of
sin, without, and besides, or contrary to the Spirit of God; and till
thou provest it, thus far I have answered thee concerning it.
Then thou sayst, Though some say, they are not only convinced of Sin, but have gotten some power over it, to abstain from those things that are forbidden in the Law; yet thou further sayst, This may be done as those blind Pharisees, called Quakers, think they do, and be but natural men, &c.
Answ. ![[cited by Bunyan (1)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
![[cited by Bunyan (2)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
Thou perverter of the right Way of God;
how long wilt thou go on in thy uncleanness, uttering thy wrath against
the Simple?
It seems to get power over sin, and to
abstain from those things forbidden in the Law is a thing of no value
with thee; but is it not further then thou ever camest? let that of God
in thy Conscience judge and answer,
and shew me ever
any natural man that did it throughout the Scripture: And as for
the Pharisee, it is thy own, I return it to thee again; thou art called
of men Master, and hast the chief Seat in the Assembly, and standst
praying in the Synagogues, as they did in Christs time. Friend, how
fain wouldst thou clear thy self to make others guilty; but the guilt
stands at thy door, and rests upon thy own head, ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
and I rather chuse to be of that profession which
abstains from those things forbidden in the Law, and to have power over
sin, then to live in the transgression of the Law, and under the power
of sin: Yet talking of belief in the Son of Mary,
whose Name
(Mary) I may have ground to judge thou worshipst as the Papists
do; and the same I say, much as Paul did, The uncircumcision of
such who keep the Law, shall condemn thee, in thy false faith, who
breakst the Law.
Then thou again confessest,
That Christ, as God, hath enlightened every man that comes into the
World with the Law which doth convince of Sin; but to this I have spoken, so shall pass it; ![[cited by Bunyan (1)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
only mind the Scripture which thy self hast quoted, The Law is
Light, ![[cited by Bunyan (1)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
then the Light is
the Law, and gives the knowledge of sin.
Then thou sayst, If the
Spirit of Christ convince thee of Sin, then it convinces of more Sins
then against the Law.
And to which I say; It seem there is some sin,
against which there is no Law, by thy confused Story, or that the Law is
not against all sin: ![[echoed by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
Friend, shew, if
thou canst, any sin which is not against the Law; if thou canst not,
Repent, and cease thy confusion.
Then thou speakst against
self-righteousness, but hast forgotten to reprove thy self,
in thy Lying, and Slandering, and false Accusing;
and it is thou that preachest another
Gospel then the Apostle preached; he directed every one to the Word
within, in the heart, and turned to the Light within, from darkness; but
thou directs altogether to a thing without; dispising the Light within,
and worshipping the Name of (Mary) in thy imaginations, and
knowst not him who was before the World was, in whom alone is Salvation,
and in no other. Then thou sayest, The Light
convinceth of Sins, but of no other then Sins against the Law; as
though there were some sins which were not against the Law; but to that I have
spoken.
And thou sayst, It doth not shew the Soul a Saviour, or Deliverer, &c.
Answ.
Thou art here
in a Lye, for the Light which comes from Christ doth manifest a Saviour,
and Deliverer, and nothing else;
for if the Light of Christ doth not shew
Christ, what then can, unto every one that walkes in the Light?
Then the next thing thou provest is, That God only is our Saviour, there is
none beside him, &c. ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
But how contrary is this to that in page
42. where thou sayest, They are
wickedly deluded, who own Christ no otherwise, but as he was before the
World was, for Salvation: For if God be the Saviour, and there is
none beside him, then it is no delusion to own him as he was before the
World was; and thus I sum up thy confusion and contradictions, and do
leave them for thee to read.
![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
The next thing I observe is, where thou art proving the
Resurrection, and slanderest the Quakers
with making light of it; but yet again wickedly numbring them with other
Infidels, that thou mightst have a cover for thy slander; but I put thee
to prove, where they made light of the Resurrection; or else prove thy
self a Lyar in the sight of all Just men; thou secretly slanderest, but
proves nothing.
Then thou hast raised a Query from
Ephes. 4.10. ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
but hast not
answered it; though many
words thou hast uttered, yet little to the purpose; and I return
thee the same query again to answer; and many other things, and Arguments thou
hast made,
to which I shall
say little, only mind thee of thy carnal sottishness, who speakst of Christ to be four or five foot long;
let shame cover thy
Lips, thou blind Sot; when did you see Christ in that length? hast
thou not here spoken of that which thou knowst not, and art a busy body
intruding into things, whereof thou art ignorant, but Fools love to be
medling, to manifest their own folly, among whom thou art; and much more stuff, which I pass by, as not worth naming;
only thy malice is against the Kingdom of
Heaven within, and utters thy carnal sensual knowledge of the things
of God, which thy imaginations shall never know.
The next thing I observe is, where thou reckonst the
Quakers to be the false Prophets which Christ speaks of, which
shall be before his coming, and to be the Scoffers which walks
after their own hearts lusts which Peter speaks of.
Answ. ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
To which I
answer; those false Prophets which Christ spake of, came in, in the
dayes of John; For, saith he, by this we know that it is the last
time; for now are there many Antichrists;
and this
was before a Quaker was heard of; ![[cited by Bunyan (1)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
![[cited by Bunyan (2)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
![[cited by Burrough (1)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
And if we
should diligently search, we should find thee in their steps,
through feigned words, through covetousness, making Merchandise of
Souls, loving the wages of unrighteousness, and such were the Scoffers,
which Peter speaks of,
among which thou art found, in thy practice, among
them who are preaching for hire, & love the error of Balaam,
who took gifts and rewards; and Christ hath said, we shall know you by
your Fruits; and the same Fruits that ever were brought forth among the
false Prophets of old, grow among you in many things I could instance;
but he is wholly blind who sees you not.
Before thou wast accusing us of drinking
water, and now thou accusest us of walking
after our own lusts; but such is thy confusion, thy wrath
overcomes sense.
Then thou speaks of some who told thee to thy face, thou usedst conjuration and witchcraft, because what thou preachedst was according to Scriptures, &c.
To which I say,
let the guilty be reproved, for we deny thy Accusation to be true upon
any of the Quakers, which some may think thou speakst of; so thy
Accusation rests between thee and them, and we are clear; for every
Truth which the Scriptures bear witness of, we do own, and do not
condemn any for preaching according to the Scriptures.
![[cited by Bunyan (1)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
![[cited by Bunyan (2)]](../../pix/cited.gif)
Then the next thing
I observe, is thy crying so
loud against Christ within; which indeed is the only thing,
without which there is no Salvation; for, Except Christ be in you,
you are Reprobates.
And this also I observe from thee, as having traced thy path unto the
end, and numbred thy work into a total sum, ![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
which is a secret smiting and obscure shooting against
the Manifestation or Belief of Christ within, which there can be no
Salvation without, as I have proved; and in words only I find thee
exalting Christ without, and worshipping the name of (Mary) like
the Pope, I have good ground so to judge.
![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
And whereas thou callest the Doctrine of
Christ within false Opinions, and takest in hand to discover
it, as in Page 203. I say to all honest men, who have but any knowledge
of the Letter of the Scripture, thou art hereby sufficiently discovered,
who callst the chief thing, which is the chief unto Salvation, and
without which can be none, false Opinions;
God shall judge
thee, thou wicked heart; and much more I need not say, but shall
leave this to the view of any that is honest to judge, and so have gone
through thy Book, and passed by many things; only I have spoken to that
which thou hast treated any thing upon us; and the Truth I have cleared
from many Lyes and Slanders, and thy Vail of false Reproaches is rent,
and our Innocency doth partly appear, and thy vail of Hypocrisie is a
little removed, and thy deceitfull heart weighed and seen:
And as for the rest
of thy Book which I have not medled with, thus much I say of it, I
suppose you will confess it was all given forth by one spirit, and it is
proved some of it is given forth by a lying spirit; then let the Reader
judge what the rest of it can be; though the words be true, yet is thy
spirit false, and at the best, what thou hast said, is but bearing false
witness (as to thy self) of a true thing;
I own the
words, and I deny the voice; and here I deal plainly with thee.
Thou then askst a
Question; Doth not the
Scripture speak of Christ within? unto which I further add,
answer it as thou canst.
![[cited by Bunyan]](../../pix/cited.gif)
Doth not the
Scripture say, Christ is within except you be Reprobates?
And is not this thus much; all is reprobate but they in whom Christ is
within? Answer in plainness, and darken not knowledge by words without
wisdom. And towards the end I find thee making up the sum of thy
wickedness with this, numbring the Quakers with
Ranters, Sin, Death, and the Devil: I will not bring a
railing Accusation against thee; but the Lord rebuke thee thou unclean
spirit, who hast falsly accused the Innocent to clear thy self from
guilt; but at thy door guilt lodges, and I leave it with thee; clear thy
self if thou art able. And thy wicked Reproaches we patiently bear,
till the Lord appear for us: and we are not greater then our Lord, who
was said to have a Devil by thy Generation; and their measure of
wickedness thou fulfils, and art one of the Dragons Army, against the
Lamb and his Followers; and thy Weapons are Slanders, and thy Refuge is
Lyes, and thy work is confused, and hath hardly gained a name in
Babylons Record; and by us (so much of it at least as is against
us) is cast by as our spoiled prey, and trampled upon in all thy
reproachfull speeches, who art unclean, and of more price to us is thy
hatred and envy, then thy love can be, except the ground were better in
which you stand.